Notes on a Dual-Mode Airport Extreme Network
Summary: These are followup notes from my attempts to setup a dual-mode Airport Extreme Network. This started at the Apple Discussion Forum for Airport Extreme but since forums have a way of disappearing over time, I wanted to preserve this somewhere else.
The Problem
I have an AppleTV which is 802.11n-capable. It gets media from my iMac which is 802.11n-capable.
Unfortunately I have these other non-802.11n-capable devices: iPhone, MacBook, and a Powerbook.
Which means I was getting very little of the 802.11n-goodness. When I was growing up, “Does Not Work Up To His Potential” was the most devastating of all report-card notes. You could be forgiven for not getting an “A” but you had to at least put in the effort.
The iMac to AppleTV connection is solely for the purposes of pushing large media files, commonly referred to as “Movies” or “TV Shows”. For that we need to be living up to our full potential.
So the idea came to me that I had this older Airport Extreme which was 802.11g compatible (now referred to as “Airport Not As Extreme As His Big Brother”).
Why not put the 802.11n devices on one network and the 802.11g devices on another? That way you get the maximum performance.
Turns out I’m not the first genius to come up with this idea. In fact it even has a name: a Dual-Band Network. Its name is derived from the fact that it is a network using two bands. Clever, eh?
I received help from Apple Discussion Forum Member Duane who currently has 21,730 posts online in the forum out of a total of 54,894 “Total Posts” and is considered a “Level 5” with a ranking of 100,940. I don’t know what any of that last stuff means, but I’m guessing it means that if you play “Apple Related Trivial Pursuit” with Duane, Duane first kicks your ass and then takes your name. Or do you take names before you kick ass? I’m not sure. Duane knows though.
In any case, Duane kindly pointed out that this information could be found in the Designing AirPort Networks Using AirPort Utility (PDF) [henceforth “DANUAU”] document provided by Apple which I had heard of before, and quite possibly even had a copy of somewhere on my hard drive, but had neglected to check because I didn’t realize this was a common thing that people wanted to do. My thanks to Duane for not only being super-helpful, but also refraining from using the term RTFM anywhere in his post. He did use the term “Dual-Band” which meant that I now had a good search term to use.
The DANUAU document proved useful in explaining that yes, this can be done, and, in fact, it is fairly simple. Here are the instructions from that document:
Setting up a Dual-Band (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) Network
You can set up a dual-band network that utilizes both the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz frequency bands, so client computers using 802.11n wireless cards join the 5 GHz segment of the network, and computers using 802.11b or 802.11g wireless cards join the 2.4 GHz segment.Setting up a dual-band network:
See “Choosing the Radio Mode” on page 21 for instructions about how to set up your AirPort Extreme 802.11n Base Station in the 5 GHz frequency range. Set up your base station to connect to the Internet based on the type of service you use (DSL or cable modem service, or connecting to an existing Ethernet network that has Internet access). Give your 5 GHz network a name, such as Business 5G, so that 802.11n client computers can join the 5 GHz segment of the network. Connect your 2.4 GHz AirPort Extreme or AirPort Express Base Station to your 802.11n base station using Ethernet. Follow the instructions earlier in this chapter to set up your base station as a bridge. Give the 2.4 GHz segment of your network a different name, such as Business 2.4 so that 802.11b and 802.11g client computers can join the 2.4 GHz segment of the network.
That’s it. That’s all they tell you. Which really didn’t seem like a lot. It also didn’t answer several of my questions, including “Can the 2.4Ghz clients communicate with the 5Ghz clients?” (Yes, they can, once you get it working properly.)
Here are the steps:
Step 1) Hookup Extreme-N to Internet connection (cable, DSL, whatever) on the WAN/Internet Port. This is probably the simplest step since most likely you have done it already with whatever network setup you have.
Step 2) Setup a 5G Wireless Network. This is fairly, except that in my case the Extreme-N base station had previously been setup as an WDS base station, and I had to change the Wireless Mode to “Create a wireless network” before “Radio Mode” would show the option for “802.11n Only (5 Ghz)” would even show up. Also note: Using 5G means that the Channel selection is automatic, so you don’t have to choose from the 1-11 range that you have been used to. This answered the question for me as to whether the Extreme-G Airport Extreme should be setup as the same channel or a different one.
Step 3) Make Sure “Connection Sharing” is set to “Share a public IP address” under the “Internet” settings. It probably already is, but double check.
Step 4) Plug the Extreme-G into one of the Extreme-N LAN Ethernet Ports. You can tell the LAN ports from the WAN port on the Extreme-N by the fact that there are 3 LAN ports and they all have the same hieroglyphic symbol over them (This is an improvement over the Extreme-G model, which has one LAN port and one WAN port, meaning that I am never sure which is which. Sure Apple could have labeled them WAN and LAN but what fun would that be when they could use symbols instead?!?)
This is where it gets tricky. Or could get tricky if you don’t read carefully.
When is a network not a network? When it’s two networks. Except it’s not.
Step 5) Configure the Extreme-G to setup another wireless network.
I went into this process thinking that I was setting up two different networks…. which I am… but only sorta.
Technically this is called a “dual-band network:” Note the singular: “network.” This is one network which has two bands (G and N). I would have realized this sooner if I had read the DANUAU more carefully, because it clearly states that these are instructions for “Setting up a dual-band network” and Duane had said “It is commonly referred to as a dual-band network”
Think of it this way: you are building a highway which has a fast lane (N) and a slow lane (G).
I also found this confusing because I’ve been used to dealing with setting up WDS networks where it is one big network with several access points. However, to get the 5Ghz option for the Extreme-N, I had to change that to “Create a Wireless Network” as mentioned above.
(It was also confusing because I could not, at first, get the Extreme-G to be G-only. I had to set it to B/G and then Apply Changes and then go in and change it to G-Only.)
At this point I had two working networks. Computers on both networks could access the Internet.
They could not, however, communicate with each other (file or screen sharing).
I went into Airport Utility and realized that the Extreme-N was setup as a 192.168.x.x network and the Extreme-G was setup as a 10.x.x.x network. So I changed the Extreme-G to also be in the 192.168.x.x range.
My next brilliant idea was that I would have the Extreme-N give out IPs in the range 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.199 and have the Extreme-G give out IPs in the range 192.168.1.200 - 192.168.1.250. Brilliant!
Except it wouldn’t work.
Airport Utility wouldn’t let me do it, telling me that: “The DHCP range you have entered conflicts with the WAN IP address of your base station” (which was 192.168.1.199). I tried restarting the Extreme-G. Which worked.
Except that now it wouldn’t get any IP.
Now some of you have already figured out what is wrong, but I had no idea. But Airport Utility told me when I hovered the little yellow “There Is Something Wrong” button:
Now that might be the most helpful error message that I’ve ever seen. Not only did they tell me what was wrong, they told me how to fix it. The key line is
“You should probably switch your base station to be in bridge mode”
When I went back and re-read the DANUAU, it had clearly told me this already: “Follow the instructions earlier in this chapter to set up your base station as a bridge.”
I had simply missed it.
A few moments of clicking around in the configuration settings for the Extreme-G led me to the Internet tab (which probably really ought to be called “Networking” but that’s a minor quibble) and at the bottom there are options for “Connection Sharing” where “Share a Public IP Address” is the default but “Off (Bridge Mode)” is also available.
Now this is easier to understand if you remember that this is A Dual-Band Network (singular). You are not setting up Dual-Band Networks (plural). The Extreme-G is set to “Create a Wireless Network” in “Wireless Mode” (as is the Extreme-N) but it is operating as a single network.
File and Screen Sharing works. Everyone has Internet access. Life is good.
Update: Someone asked if both of the networks appear in the menu bar WiFi dropdown. Indeed they do:
on 08 Feb 2008 at 3:46 pm # Annie
Do you think that this setting would work with an Extreme base station and an Airport Express?
on 08 Feb 2008 at 4:13 pm # TJ
Absolutely. I haven’t tried it, but I have no reason to believe that it would not work just as well. Some of the steps might be a little different, but this should be a good guide.
on 08 Feb 2008 at 7:00 pm # Frederik
Is there any reason as to why you set the Extreme-G to G-only? Why wouldn’t you set it to B/G so that all older clients could access it?
on 08 Feb 2008 at 7:49 pm # TJ
I’ve only got N and G equipment, so there was no need to allow B on this network, but yes, if you were setting this up, you might want to leave it open for B.
However, the same problem exists: let B stuff on your G network and it will slow it down.
But if you’ve got older equipment or host others who do, yeah, leave it open to B/G.
on 24 Feb 2008 at 1:04 pm # rosswords
Great post! This is exactly what I’ve been trying to figure out, so I can use my new MacBook Air at N speeds while other computers connect at G speeds (and still playing music through AirTunes on my Airport Express).
A few questions:
1) It’s not clear which base station you set up as a bridge: the Extreme-N or Extreme-G (in my case an Express-G)? I’m guessing it’s the Extreme-G.
2) Can you use 802.11n (2.4GHz) instead of 5GHz? I read that 5GHz has trouble going through walls, and I might have better range in my house with the 2.4GHz.
3) Do both bands show up in your Airport MenuBar under separate names?
on 24 Feb 2008 at 3:02 pm # TJ
@rosswords
1) Yes, it’s the Extreme-G. Go back and re-read that part and it should be clear. I’ve also added a screenshot.
2) I would assume so, yes. However 5Ghz is supposed to be less “crowded” with other devices such as other wifi networks, cordless phones, etc. That said, my 5Ghz network reaches my AppleTV, but the transfer speeds aren’t very fast. I might have to do some time tests to see whether 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz works faster for that type of use. YMMV.
3) Yes, I’ve added a screenshot to show that also.
on 16 Mar 2008 at 6:23 am # san
WiFi is miserable at large file transfer. It just is. Period. Internet-speed activities, just spiffy. Online games, fine. Local streaming (b is fine for music; g is great for video, no problems). Bulk data transfer, which is syncing to an AppleTV, awful. In fact, everyone i’ve known who has upgraded from g to n due to range/speed complaints gets little improvement for bulk transfer speed and range over n, even if they can go pure n, and of course no improvement if they need to, say, connect a PS3 or iPhone or other g device to their “blazing fast” n network.
I hate to say it, but for back-up people should be using local external drives, not Time Capsules, and for AppleTVs or bulk data transfer between computers or devices like the AppleTV, run copper. I know, ugh. How late 20th century. But even on a 100MB switch — older home/router — over ether, syncing a couple GB to an AppleTV, whoosh.
on 18 Mar 2008 at 10:14 am # kevin
I hope someone can help with this question: If i had a new airport express with B/G/N and also a new (as of yesterday) Airport express with B/G/N, how can i set up the N to act as a WDS (wireless mesh) and have the B/G be the access points, on the same units. In other words, have the extreme send the internet to the expresses via WDS down the hall way, that then the expresses then act as an access point for computers in the room down the hall. Without using two separate pieces of equipment for the N and G. Can it do separate B/G AND N on the same one piece of hardware? This would be much less complicated and inexpensive than two pieces of equipment at each location.
thanks for any suggestions.
on 20 Mar 2008 at 7:14 pm # Jonas
What an EXCELLENT article - thank you so much for this - your article was the only hit when I googled “The DHCP range you have entered conflicts with the WAN IP address of your base station” or similar message. This happened to answer my very next question - as to how to best integrate an “old@ Airport Express for just printer sharing on a slower g network. Thanks again!
on 31 Mar 2008 at 12:09 pm # Otto
Very helpful information for us novices that just want a simple wireless network at home. Thanks very much! Questions: If I set up network (Extreme-N, two Expresses-N, iMac24-N, and MacPro-N) to be “802.11n (802.11b/g compatible)” as a WDS, what speed does the net work run? Then, when I fire up my iPod Touch (which I assume is 802.11g) what happens? Does it slow down only then? Does it speed back up when the iPod goes away? What happens if I make it 2.4Ghz? Should it go through walls better? (Pretty crummy now!) Is there any info on this anywhere?
on 28 Apr 2008 at 5:00 pm # Ric
Great article and certainly an improvement over Apple’s documentation.
I currently have an Airport Extreme feeding the 5 family Macs. It also supplies a PS3, a Wii and an Xbox, plus an Asus Eee running a Windows based weather reporting site. Everything is wireless. Additionally I have up to 4 expresses distributing iTunes around the house and one of these also extends the network via WDS. All works well, even time machine backup to a USB drive attached directly to the extreme. I also watch TV via an AppleTV. This synchs ripped dvd’s pretty fast but recently when Apple started selling TV shows the systems weakness showed as it took a while to download purchased content. I could connect an ethernet cable to the AppleTV but having (probably foolishly) picked up a second Extreme on Ebay recently I want to try setting up a dual network with the 5Ghz n side feeding the AppleTV and an n equipped Macbook. My question is quite simply: Can I daisy chain the new extreme, set up at n speeds, to the existing extreme network so as to avoid changing any existing settings? (As opposed to having the n extreme first then the b/g attached)?
on 28 Apr 2008 at 5:30 pm # TJ
I don’t have any knowledge beyond what is contained in this article.
If you have additional questions, I would recommend the friendly folks at the Apple Airport Extreme discussion forum who were the ones who know tons more about this than I do.
on 24 Jul 2008 at 6:14 am # DL
On your Extreme-G, under Airport -> Wireless tab, what’s your wireless mode? Create a wireless network or Participate in a wireless network?
D
on 25 Jul 2008 at 1:21 pm # Alyn
What an incredibly helpful post - thank you for putting this together. I was in the same boat and tried various options, but this helped muchly. Good job.
on 12 Sep 2008 at 11:03 pm # macguyincali
Great write up. I have a similar set up, but my 2nd router, is also an Extreme N (just not Gigabit). The main router is a Gigabit Extreme N but all the LAN Ethernet ports are full. Is there a way to set this up so that the second router (your Extreme G, my N) can connect via Wireless to the main router instead of via Ethernet? Also, there doesn’t seem to be a way to create a B/G only network on the second Extreme N. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
-JP
on 15 Sep 2008 at 7:32 am # yachts99
Which port do you use on the Extreme-G, WAN or LAN? As in the Extreme-N connects to which port on the Extreme-G?
It’s not clear from the Apple illustration but within the same article (under “Setting up Roaming”) it says to connect to the LAN port on the second and subsequent Extreme(s).
on 15 Sep 2008 at 10:46 am # TJ
@yachts99
I’m 99% sure that you connect the Extreme-G’s WAN port to one of the Extreme-N’s LAN ports.